NEWS
Response to AdSaint's Criticism of Our Criticism
Originally posted here: http://adsaint.org/news/heres-a-logo-for-you/
What an honor to be slammed today by the St. Louis Egotist, such a noteworthy publication that supposedly “exists for the sole purpose of making St. Louis a more thriving & creative community.” I didn’t realize it’s a competition to help the St. Louis market.
Sarcasm noted. EVERYTHING IS A COMPETITION! LIFE IS A RACE! Okay, you're not competitors and we can work together from here on out. Truce? Oh wait - you wrote more...
Egotist didn’t like AdSaint’s logo treatment (or the logo design itself from Schupp) which appeared in a story we did for The Society for the Blind & Visually Impaired.We just found it odd that you showcased the old or wrong logo all smushed up like you did ours. Okay, fair enough. But they missed the point. We personally called and interviewed The Society for the Blind & Visually Impaired, who were giddy that our publication thought they were media-worthy, something the Ego folks only considered when short on news for the day and in need of a project to rip.This is good. We're glad they received the press. The issue here is not about the org. And yes, we are always short on news. This is not news. Wait... Perhaps Egotist needs a PR 101 lesson in community-building, but we at AdSaint understand that building a stronger community isn’t done by tearing it down and making petty arguments. People of real vision and leadership build communities by taking the time to get to know every aspect of that community and to bring out the best in it. Totally agree. So along the way, we should just accept/ignore weak solutions?So to Egotist, way to go in taking down a small non-profit with limited resources and a fellow community site with a shared mission! Whooa whoaaa. Way to go AdSaint in making it look like we have beef with a charitable organization that helps out blind people! Holy shit.
While the Egotist may believe stories are all about stunning visuals and good punchlines, AdSaint is actually trying to build a community and make everyone, not just a handful of people, feel like they’re a part of it. It's like when you raise kids. You can tell a kid that they're great no matter what and that they don't fail when they actually do. Or you can tell your kid the truth and show them how the world really works and they will grow up smarter and with a better understanding. It seems that everyone in St. Louis has been telling each other how great they are for far too long. As a result, we are looked over when major companies/clients look for good solutions.
Look. We hate nothing but bad work. We love Schuppco. We Love AdSaint even though they made us appear to be blind people haters. Were we a little strong in our critique? Possibly. Do we think it should have been ignored? No.
You tell us. This is all of our city. This is your Egotist. Do you want us to not report on bad work and have everything just be hunky dory only posting the successes or do you think it's good to call out the bad work that ALL of us create from time to time. We've done bad work. You've done bad work. Would you rather have us not tell you?
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"Look. We hate nothing but bad work." I'd be undergoing some serious self-loathing if I was the person that wrote this post.
The Blind Leading the Blind post lacked anything substantial (you found an ugly logo posted on another site, so what), but this sensationalized attack is completely devoid of value and does nothing but validate my opinions on how anonymity brings out the worst of people online.
Wasn't there already a management change here once already?
Like I told the outgoing secret shit digger-uppers (I say that in a good way), anonymity will forever be a bone of contention here. But that's not the point.
The point is this logo that no one really knows how to post, format or talk about. Do I care what terrible constraints were given and god awful timetable they had to work under? mostly not. A good designer can simply design. Would I like to see sketches and how the problem was solved only to find the client posted a version of their own choosing? could be cool.
You could be nice and all and call the designer to say your going to slam their logo but would like to know the back story before doing so to make your readers feel better, but that seems soooo AdSaint-ish.
This site, from what I understand, isn't all about nicey nice. You have a slow day, you do a search (and god only knows you'll find way more than a few ugly logos out there - shit, I'll find 100 right now) and you post your opinion. We all respond with some constructive criticism and then we move on. And maybe the designer learns a thing or two (or gets offended).
This is our job, people. We have critical eyes. It's what our clients pay us for. It's what our bosses and peers should demand. Can't say we all know how to speak, but we have damn good eyes. Now let me sign off before my eyes shut down...
I guess your brain shuts down after 1.30a, too. Should have posted my constructive critique of the logo.
It's an interesting problem - design a logo for an organization who's patrons can't or can barely see. Are we then targeting donors? caregivers? employees? potential patrons? probably all. For me, the details, angles, points, small reverse type, gradation, drop shadow, all work against each other. The name treatment could stand alone without the mark. Curious to see what this looks like on a business card with all that detail. Removing the arch could make it more dynamic. Less is more.
If it were me, I'd look beyond eyes, eye parts, the Arch (ugh!) the river - it's about the senses that those with disabilities can connect with: touch, taste, smell, hear, etc. and embrace those. Cool if the logo was tactile or maybe it could smell like flowers or sound like a song bird - now there's a full-sensory brand experience.
Well, you know what they say about opinions...
MacGruber actually went to the trouble of saying something. Cool.
I'm with Skye's comment in the other post--the critiques given here tend to be poorly worded and generally useless. Someone asked movie director PT Anderson how he reacted to criticism, and he said, "Critically." Criticism isn't just a matter of pointing out that something sucks or looks cool. It's an art in itself. Just ask Andre Bazin, Jean-Luc Godard, or hell, Quentin Tarantino, who's noted before that he rather enjoys reading film criticism because it's "pure writing."
It doesn't take an ounce of insight to realize that the logo in question isn't great--big whoop. No mystery there! Except that it's just a logo, for a small organization, isn't indicative of what the agency does most of the time, and the comments made about it were basically "this is bad work and more effort should have been put into it." Great. That accomplishes what, exactly?
There are many reasons St. Louis isn't regarded as a leading creative community, and I suspect the ostensible "mutual admiration society" the Egotist complains about isn't a key factor separating this city from creative glory. How does relatively mindless bitching about periodic instances of bad work advance us any further?
There are, for instance, blogs like Armin Vit's Brand New, which is often vicious in its attacks of new identity work. Of course, Armin and Bryony are extremely intelligent and when they tee off on bad work they're exacting, thoughtful, and specific. And objective. Then they open it up for discussion and let people vote on the work in question.
Then there's Design Observer, which solicits lots of opinions and also doesn't necessarily shy away from pointing out crap. It's just that for the most part, the subject matter is a bit loftier than "this is awesome" or "this sucks."
And lately on the St. Louis Egotist, well...it's not like it's ALL childish ranting. But anonymously attacking someone else's work in a not particularly articulate fashion didn't do much aside from inspire a number of equally immature comments on the site in general. There was a failure to ignite constructive discussion. There's not much use in mindless back-patting, nor is there much use in hollow attacks.
I say we turn this frown up side-down!
Designer Throwdown!
The Place: http://blindlogos.tumblr.com/
The Weapons: Illustrator, Coffee, Ice Pick
The Logo: Society for the Blind and Visually Impaired
Best logo gets lunch at Blues City on me!
Fight!
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